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Thread: Urban Exploring Safety Down Week!

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  1. #1
    UA Crew devilc's Avatar
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    Exclamation Urban Exploring Safety Down Week!

    In the military, when things go REALLY wrong, we hold a "Safety Down Day" or even WEEK.
    This is typically the result of a death, near death, or some sort of catastrophic event.
    We shut down operations, examine what happened, then we focus on re-looking at our best practices so as to prevent this from happening again.
    We need a UE Safety Down Day or Week here.
    Some eggregiously stupid things have happened and come to light.
    It's obvious that there is a creeping cavalier attitude among some members of this forum. It troubles me, a lot.
    Members of this forum are doing things that are blatantly stupid and dangerous - and things that embarrass me by association.


    -- Let's use this thread to focus on our fuckups and foibles so we can re-focus on what we enjoy most: Documenting abandoned and decaying locations.
    "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
    Thomas Jefferson

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    Level 3 User BlueTaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devilc View Post
    We need a UE Safety Down Day or Week here.
    Some eggregiously stupid things have happened and come to light.
    It's obvious that there is a creeping cavalier attitude among some members of this forum. It troubles me, a lot.
    Members of this forum are doing things that are blatantly stupid and dangerous - and things that embarrass me by association.
    Since we are talking about how the military does it, maybe we need to talk about small unit leadership. It is easy to sit at home/work on your computer and criticize other explorers, but it's another thing to actually take a young explorer and educate him/her in the right way to do things.

    The best leadership is leadership by example.

    I realize that this is a cliquish thing we do. The Matts explore with The Matts. F/rox explores with F/rox.
    Maybe if one or two of the veterans of UE would step down off their pedestal, they could throw out an invite to one of the new guys. And if they brought a new guy on an exploration, maybe they could impart upon them some of their values and beliefs.

    On the other hand, we could try to lead by internet. DevilC, I know you can't carry out your day to day duties by internet. Anyone else on here who is in a management/leadership position, you wouldn't lead by email would you? So why would you hope to educate new urban explorers by internet?

    Longwinded I know, but I guess the quick version would be:

    Take the time to teach those who don't know, and if you're too lazy to do that, then don't complain.
    Work. Buy. Consume. Die.

    -Otep

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    kts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTaco View Post
    Maybe if one or two of the veterans of UE would step down off their pedestal, they could throw out an invite to one of the new guys. And if they brought a new guy on an exploration, maybe they could impart upon them some of their values and beliefs.
    I've tried exploring with new people. A majority of the time they flake out on you by not showing up, changing plans, or just freaking out before you get there or once you're there. In the end it makes for a crappy time.

    Over time I've gotten into a routine with a few people that I often explore with. They are reliable and I know how they handle themselves when out exploring and something happens.

    Not to mention once you've been in this for a while you have to start going into higher risk places and/or places that are much futher away. In both situations I would rather go with someone that I have explored with before and I trust.

    I don't think the ethics of this site or hobby are that hard to pick up. I lurked long before I posted and it was easy to figure out how things were done here.
    All I do is party...
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    Level 3 User breviceps's Avatar
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    I can definitely relate to the newbie thing. It was difficult being a new member of this forum. You wanna learn about UE but I felt like I was walking on eggshells. If you phrase a question incorrectly or ask too many questions, people jump on you. How can you understand and learn what the etiquette is in the forum and exploring when we don't even have a FAQ.

    I understand some like the right of passage, to see a newbie suffer. However, it's a big turnoff for someone who doesn't handle well to negativity or being put down in general. I deal with difficult people in my job so it helps having that background but for someone who doesn't, this forum can definitely be intimidating.

    All I ask is that everyone should remember your roots and act like mature adults instead of engaging in petty drama. Remember what it was like being the new guy and how difficult it can be to fit in. Instead of eating our young why not do exactly what BlueTaco suggests, have some kind of mentorship and extend an invitation to an exploration.

    I read and hear from a lot of people that people flock onto Urban Atrophy because it was friendlier and it had less drama and fighting compared to UER. Please -- let's not make this forum another UER in the making.

    I gotta give props to Corley and Sean because these two people made me feel welcome and have entertained my questions without ridicule or judgement.

    This is my 2 cents (more like a dollar) but I do hope something good would come out of this whole thing.
    Failure is not defeat unless you stop trying.

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    kts's Avatar
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    disclaimer: i'm becoming a cranky, old jaded explorer.

    i really don't want to have to do hand holding, i want to go explore something, take photos, and get out safely. life is short, i'd rather go out and enjoy it instead holding someone's hand. i want to explore with other like minded people who have been doing this for a while and know how to handle themselves while out and about.

    maybe i'll make an FAQ that will tell people to lurk and learn before they begin to post. that's what i did and it seems like common sense to me. looking at the forums for a day or two before posting and it should be pretty easy to figure out the gist of things.

    i remember my first exploration was when Carnage invited me out. that did help me get my start since it was going on and i could come into work late that day. would i have i still explored it he hadn't have invited me out? yes, i ended up going to Pal State a few days later by myself and that was planned before the plan with Carnage. this hobby is something that is for self-starters.

    if you're a self-starter i will help you out, i've dealt with several people who claim they want to go out but really they just want to be spoonfed things and i'm not about that.

    this site is a long way from the dramafests of other boards. a little bit of drama is good sometimes, lets people air things out. this is not a perfect world, we can't all just get along and sing "kumbaya"

    as for the petty drama, it's not that petty. mentok made a very poor decision that could have had very bad repercussions for the exploring community. he should get some heat for it. i agree with Descending, any press about what we do is a bad thing, we go into places where we should not be. putting a spot light on our hobby, whether a real spot light or a metaphorical spot light is a bad thing.
    All I do is party...
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  6. #6
    Level 3 User breviceps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kts View Post

    if you're a self-starter i will help you out, i've dealt with several people who claim they want to go out but really they just want to be spoonfed things and i'm not about that.

    this site is a long way from the dramafests of other boards. a little bit of drama is good sometimes, lets people air things out. this is not a perfect world, we can't all just get along and sing "kumbaya"
    You'll definitely learn who you want to explore with and who you don't want to and yes we cannot spoon feed information because you need to have an initiative to do your own research in this hobby.

    People have to pull their weight. Unfortunately your common sense isn't always the same as Tom, Dick, and Harry. There has to be a starting off point and that's with everyone. And an FAQ is a good primer and thank you for taking that into consideration.

    But I have to say that you pattern yourself from people that you learn from. And that's true with learning how to drive, or even me becoming a nurse. You pick up both the good and bad habits of whoever taught you. So if you're kind enough to give some sound advice to a newbie, it makes them a better explorer and it benefits the hobby as whole.
    Failure is not defeat unless you stop trying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kts View Post
    disclaimer: i'm becoming a cranky, old jaded explorer.
    welcome to my world.

    this hobby, in this area, has reached a saturation point. Why teach when you can discourage and terrorize?

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    Level 2 User Paranoid?'s Avatar
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    Ok, my eliite 2 cents.
    To try and not derail from what Devil C started.
    Make NO mistake people NEW or not We are walking on egg shells everytime we step foot onto property thats not our own!
    We, were all new to this at some point and we all felt like we were hazed. This is no hazing, this is a safety issue. Just because we have been successful with exploring doesnt mean we have to put ourself at risk with unknown elements. THAT is what exploring is all about - using your common sense to eliminate the controlable risks. There are far too many unknown factors out there that can get us in trouble, luck, has a large part of what we do. Keeping luck to a minimum each time is what all off us should be striving for.
    F/Rox is not on a pedistel, we just like to asses most situations for their risk factor and make appropriate decisions to keep us safe. We explore with alot of dif people. But ones that have proven to be safe explorers. Could any of you blame us?

    As a noob, prove yourself to yourself, others will see it. Its when you go trying to prove yourself to others that u go gettin yourself all fucked up!

    And I guess by this post I am attempting to lead by internet, I cant afford to lead in this any other way. It's not conducive to my freedom, Wallet or my morals.
    - has never been arrested for "Moapery"... just for the record.


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    Level 3 User Doomed's Avatar
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    I have explored with quite a few explorers when they were starting out, just to show how i do things, and to see how they do things, and just to plain meet n00bs. Pinky, todd d, urbanexplorer777, breviceps.... and I think its definitely a good thing to do. It kind of reminds you that the pedestal you think you are on, really is at ground level.
    "I'm coming down fast, but I'm miles above you."

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    kts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomed View Post
    pedestal you think you are on, really is at ground level.
    i will have you know that i have an excellent view from my ivory tower...
    All I do is party...
    L/amE

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    Level 3 User Doomed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kts View Post
    i will have you know that i have an excellent view from my ivory tower...
    haha, awesome.... can i move in?
    "I'm coming down fast, but I'm miles above you."

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    UA Crew devilc's Avatar
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    I did not intend for this to be a thread full of finger pointing.
    I am genuinely concerned about some people and some trends I have seen.
    That said, I am annoyed and your accusations are unwarranted.
    Manvil explores far more w/out DevilC than he does with me. I have 2 kids and a 70 hour per week job AND I am in the reserves. I explore strategically and make the most of my time out and about.
    That said, I DO take new explorers out and about, and pretty often too.
    Just because you do not see kumbiyah threads about how awesome our trip was does not mean it does not happen.
    Just last week I took 2 members of this forum out to shoot pics for their senior project. . . .
    From what I see, FRox will explore with anyone/anytime - they are pretty open to newcomers.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTaco View Post
    The best leadership is leadership by example.
    //
    The Matts explore with The Matts. F/rox explores with F/rox.
    //
    Maybe if one or two of the veterans of UE would step down off their pedestal, they could throw out an invite to one of the new guys.
    //
    and if you're too lazy to do that, then don't complain.
    "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
    Thomas Jefferson

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    Level 3 User BlueTaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devilc View Post
    In the military, when things go REALLY wrong, we hold a "Safety Down Day" or even WEEK.
    -- Let's use this thread to focus on our fuckups and foibles so we can re-focus on what we enjoy most: Documenting abandoned and decaying locations.
    Sorry if I irritated a lot of people, but I woke up this morning and checked this thread and found a lot of thoughtful responses, which is a good thing, right?

    As to Devilc's original point, here's my near fuckup. Going to the western pp whore, alone, and climbing out on a foot wide metal ledge, maybe thirty feet off the ground, just to get what I thought would be a cool shot. Only after I was staring dozens of feet straight down at a cold hard concrete floor, did I think "this is stupid, if I fall off of here, I am going to die alone in here". And no, the shot I got from up there wasn't good, it sucked. Totally not worth it.
    Work. Buy. Consume. Die.

    -Otep

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